Curse

Nokomis · Jun 16, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Gee a lot of people complain about grind. But don't all games have grind? Come on, you know they do.

Even board games have grind . . .how many times do you go around the board in Monopoly just paying out $3.50 to your little sister when you land on Baltic? How many hands of poker are low-bet, I fold snoozers before you get to an interesting hand where the stakes are high?

Even the best PC games have grind. I do NOT want to know how many hours I have spent telling my little workers in Civilization 1, 2, and 3 to build roads. And the Sims? Oh my god...talk about grind! Go to the bathroom. Take a shower. Do your homework. It is worse than real life, that game! And certainly the classic Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale type games had grind.

Console games? I adore playing baseball on my PS2 but really a TON of grind there. GTA San Andreas? Drive around...kill some dudes...drive around...spray some graffiti...drive around...kill more dudes. Okay, it is fun to kill lots of civilians and then pick off the police helicopters with missiles, but it is still grind really.

I could go on, you know...they ALL have grind.

Maybe we should stop complaining about grind and ask that the grind be more rewarding in GW. It is worth sitting through a bunch of bad hands in poker to nail a guy with three of a kind because you have a straight. But sometimes, in GW, the grind seems to me to be not very rewarding.

Bigger carrots, says I.

--Nokomis

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 16, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Nokomis you silly person!
Perhaps what is in order is what you perceive as "grind" versus anyone else. Perhaps your perception is accurate and mine is out of whack?
I'd love to hear back regarding this.

Tal

InvaderGIR · Jun 16, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I think the mentality with the people that say GW has grind is due to reverse psychology. GW pretty much promotes that it has very little grind. So what do people go do? They look for it.

Reiden Argrock · Jun 16, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

I agree that all games have some form of grind, specially that damn sims game, ugh, worse than all mmorpg's put together, but I'm quite content with the reward's coming from GW for the little required 'sliding' it's a little smoother than a grind since by just playing the game straight through will put you at max lvl.

I'm not exactly sure what the point of this post is either? you want more rewards? what kind of rewards? more items? more gold? your quite vague I think

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 16, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

I want more grind, but then i'm probably a minority there because i didn't care about the grind topic when i picked up the box.

I agree with the OP about all games having elements of grind. When i play RTS games that require you to build up your base/forces, i design maps for it that allow me to do so for as long as possible.

Yes i'm strange. Call a spade a spade, but then that's too much grind isn't it!

MACSIMUS · Jun 16, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

I agree with the fact that all games have grind i mean how could it not. Noobs will be noobs and bitch about stuff that causes them to put a little effort into something

oh well THATS The Online Gaming World

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 16, 2005, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Talesin's blunt and cruel description of grind: (with credit to Succubi of Evil, Corp, or SOE)

Grind: (Gry-nd) noun.
"He wearied of the endless grind."
A mindnumbingly, mindless and boring repetition of behaviors, done ad infinitum in the vain and delusional belief that any rare reward realized is somehow equal to or greater than the countless real hours wasted in its attainment.
See Camping...

Anything less than this is not grind at all, but commonly referred to as
"Playing the game."

Adjust accordingly,

Talesin

Nokomis · Jun 17, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reiden Argrock

I agree that all games have some form of grind, specially that damn sims game, ugh, worse than all mmorpg's put together, but I'm quite content with the reward's coming from GW for the little required 'sliding' it's a little smoother than a grind since by just playing the game straight through will put you at max lvl.

I'm not exactly sure what the point of this post is either? you want more rewards? what kind of rewards? more items? more gold? your quite vague I think

Oh the point was just . . .um...errr...to put off cleaning the BBQ grill as long as possible?

No, seriously, I just meant to say that grind is present in any game but whether or not you call it grind depends quite a lot on whether the rewards seem adequate. In some games the rewards are adequate. Sometimes, in GW, I don't think the rewards (carrots) are big enough or come often enough. I think the game has some real flat spots where players do the same things over and over for little reward. I don't think GW is consistantly plagued by this problem, but it is in places. And I think it is a solvable issue.

Example: When my character first got to Piken Square, I hit a real flat spot in the game. The mobs of Chaar were hard to take on, and the rewards were tiny. I was finally fighting the dreaded Chaar, but they seemed pretty uninteresting, didn't have cool loot, and I was dying a lot thanks to mobs. Not only that, but the landscape was ugly! I think that is a flat spot in the game, a place where the rewards need to be bigger. This is the infamous Chaar I'd heard so much about. Come on...they should seem like more than overgrown Grawl. And I should get something somewhat minorly impressive for figuring out how to take on mobs at that point in the game.

That is just one small example, but it serves to illustrate my point: Good grind doesn't feel like grind because you get that little AHHHH moment that is the pay-off. I think GW could use a few more of those moments.

--Nokomis

Anarchist_Monk · Jun 17, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Ok you were dying alot against the Charr? Dude the devs don't want you to solo through the whole game, they make some levels or areas hard so you actually have to participate in the Online experience. If it was all so easy then it wouldn't be fun. You beat a part, get past it, and move on to bigger better things. Don't waste your time fighting the "dreaded Charr" they aren't worth it. Simple spiders in Kryta could probably take on the whole Charr army. Move on and play with real people. You gain true experience from that and you make friends at the same time. You do get those "aaahhh" moments, you just have to work as a team and get it done, alot more comes later in the game.

Nokomis · Jun 17, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarchist_Monk

Ok you were dying alot against the Charr? Dude the devs don't want you to solo through the whole game, they make some levels or areas hard so you actually have to participate in the Online experience. If it was all so easy then it wouldn't be fun. You beat a part, get past it, and move on to bigger better things. Don't waste your time fighting the "dreaded Charr" they aren't worth it. Simple spiders in Kryta could probably take on the whole Charr army. Move on and play with real people. You gain true experience from that and you make friends at the same time. You do get those "aaahhh" moments, you just have to work as a team and get it done, alot more comes later in the game.

Okay. No. No. No. So you are saying that I am being FORCED to play with other real people in those flat spots? Have you SEEN the intelligence level of a lot of the GW gamers? They make your average junior high class seem wildly sophisticated. No, don't tell me that I would be having fun if only I played with other people. There are people on this forum that I would LOVE to be in a group with, absolutely...very cool people. But most of the people who I end up in groups with are absolute dimwits who RUIN the game experience rahter than enhancing it.

No, the game shouldn't have flat spots that aren't any fun. That is a design flaw.

--Nokomis

Anarchist_Monk · Jun 17, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Um, no dude they are design flaws. If you want to play with yourself go play an offline console game. The "flat spots" are actually fun if you party with real people. Yes there are some very immature and very noobish people out there, but the "very cool people" aren't limited to this forum lol. Just play around a little. Note: don't invite a person saying "Oh yeah, lvl 10 tank that owns! I can't be stopped!" or "Healing monk looking for party" when they are a necro/ranger, that happened to me in the lower lvls -_-. Kicked him fast.